Sorry but the "gentle chiding" is what we see in public and unlike the 13% in Michigan I don't need my hand held; I haven't let this war make me throw nuance out the window or forget how any of this works, namely that *actual* diplomacy doesn't happen in front of a damn camera. And let's be real the only thing that is going to appease the people complaining the loudest is for Biden to reverse eighty years of policy and have the United States stop supporting Israel's right to exist altogether, which he shouldn't and thankfully isn't going to do. And frankly if that's the hill they want to die on well, they most likely will under Trump or one of his successors so fuck it, they win.
Thank you for this. I'm in Michigan, and what you've said here is exactly why I dragged my ass to the polls to vote for Biden yesterday. Am I happy with what I see him doing, no, but do I think what I see is all that's happening, or that it's as simple as the far left is making it out to be? Also no.
There is a part of me that is honestly wondering if party of the issue is that these folks are largely comprised of people who weren't of voting age or otherwise eligible to vote in 2016 (and in some cases, 2020 as well)- because I'm stunned to the degree to which I'm seeing history repeat itself with no seeming degree of awareness of what happened then.
Thank you! It makes me so frustrated how little Americans--even the "college-educated" ones--seem to understand about international relations. Do they really think Biden is calling Bibi and gently suggesting a single damn thing? That's not what's happening. We aren't told 95% of what's actually happening, and that is how it's supposed to be because that is how our national security, and that of our diplomatic partners, is protected. Something Trump never grasped. Biden's doing everything he can, and he has been all along, to prevent this situation from becoming full-scale WW3. Nobody wishes Netanyahu was at the bottom of the ocean more than he does.
Here's what I wish his campaign would learn from these results: the meaning of the word "Zionist" has changed to younger Americans and Biden should stop using that word when he talks about his belief that Israel has the right to exist. Period.
When it leaked that Biden also thinks Netanyahu was an asshole and a "bad fucking guy" I'll admit I was a little relieved. I always suspected the state department is doing way more to hold Israel back behind the scenes than people realized but that just confirmed it for me straight up. Now they of course claimed he didn't say that, but I think deep down we all know that Biden totally did.
Frankly as a women watching the Republican Party systematically tear down rights we fought for and thought we won decades ago and knowing that they would happily continue on this path is what I care about right now. The terrible neverending mess in the Middle East has been around for a long time and sadly seems to get worse for lots of reasons. Arab-Americans who think not voting for Biden will solve any of these issues are living in a non reality based world. Trump will happily destroy Gaza and not give it a second thought. And I agree about our f’cked up electoral college system. That 10 or 20,000 voters in one state could give the presidency to trump, who will certainly once again lose the popular vote, is an embarrassing failure of our democracy.
It frankly angers me that people can't see this. Its like they're pretending 2016 (when the exact same phenomenon handed Trump the Presidency despite losing the popular vote, never happened. If the intent was to "send a message" to Biden without any real consequences, fine, but I have yet to anyone put forth a cogent argument for how electing Trump (which again, is the only other outcome to Biden not winning) will result in a better outcome for them on that issue.
I understand the anger and frustration people have (though I strongly disagree that this should be the issue on which the outcome of this American Presidential election should turn - that to me is f**king looney tunes) but people also have to come to terms with the idea that there is no perfect candidate and its possible that the candidate you generally support isn't going to perfectly align with you on every issue. Let's be clear here - the argument isn't that Biden isn't criticizing Israel at all, its that he's not criticizing Israel ENOUGH. You're really ready to risk a Trump Presidency for that? F**king hell.
Agree! Which is why we should cut out any expectation of their support, remove them from the assumed Biden coalition, and concentrate on suburban voters (in Michigan and elsewhere) who vote in greater numbers and with more reliability.
Even then, I suspect that most of these primary protest votes will revert to Biden votes simply because it's tough to follow through with a threat when you yourself are the most likely victim of the consequences of that threat. That said, the protest vote didn't come close to Biden's 2020 margin of victory, so either way it's probably fine. To be clear I'm not suggesting Democrats abandon the interests or wellbeing of American Muslims. On the contrary, it's in their best interest that Trump not become president, so it is incumbent on Democrats to deploy their resources in such a way that makes that outcome least likely.
But this constituency and others should be forewarned: there are certain groups that have the electoral juice to demand summary policy changes. Black women, for example. Muslims, for better or for worse, almost certainly do not. And if you're threatening to abandon a political figure or party, you either need to be at peace with the consequence of that abandonment (Trump) or be prepared to no longer exert leverage over the party/politician you've abandoned if your threat doesn't work. That's a big gamble for the political power of American Muslims, whose membership in the left-of-center coalition is already tenuous due to a lot of very socially conservative views.
Ok then, I’m not allowed to give my opinion on a political post about an election that just happened. You know what, that’s not how it works. I can be frustrated and mad at rednecks that love trump or white women or poc that vote against their own self interest and write about it! (Free country and all that). And my opinion is that the reality that Arab Americans live in will get a whole lot worse if trump is re-elected. And I don’t want that to happen.
The premise of the article is flawed. Review the history of the "undecided" vote in Michigan.
It was 11% in the last cycle when there was nothing controversial about the nominees at the time. So this time - with Tlaib and many others attempting to rally a protest vote, it comes in at 13%? So we're supposed to see a 2% difference - a few thousand votes if the math in my head is correct - as some slap in the face to Biden that he needs to pay attention to? And overhaul America's Foreign Policy positions? I think not.
I get that there are a lot of people who are upset by his initial response to Gaza. I hate it too. The fault here is the Israeli government's ... and that's who needs to course correct.
But you think a few thousand meaningless votes (meaningless because they were cast in a primary Biden was going to win in a landslide anyway) is going to change the administration's plan? You think a Trump administration would have done anything better? (In fact, it's obvious that it would have been many times worse).
This all smacks of "purity" tests ... and that's how the left grants the GOP control of the government.
Yeah they're really juicing it for all its worth. There's always a lot of subtle editorializing at the NYT but it's usually all over the place. This has felt like a very coordinated effort to pressure Biden by the paper at large by turning something barely consequential (an "uncommitted" vote 2% higher than what Obama received in 2012) into some kind of political air raid siren.
The NYT has been absolutely shameful in their coverage of this election season. It genuinely feels like they want Trump to win and destroy American democracy. I don't fucking get it.
They do. They've gone on record. The stability of Biden, and the opacity of his White House, is killing their already failing business models. Trump was the best thing that ever happened to them. Individual journalists may be alarmed by Trump, but "The Press" likes Trump and wants him to win. Never forget that.
First of all, this thing didn't come close to Biden's 2020 margin of victory, which was around 150,000. And Haley's voters (40%) do not appear willing to vote for Trump en masse. Biden is likely going to win Michigan, and it will be certified by the state's democratic AG. So no, Biden does not "have to listen" in the way being suggested, putting aside the fact that Biden has pressured Netanyahu in ways few other presidents of either party would.
So the potential outcomes for this group are:
A) You've said your piece, now fall in line behind Biden. Find some face-saving excuse in an action Biden takes which he would have taken anyway but which you credit your "pressure campaign" for ("yay we forced his hand!" or whatever).
B) Stick to your "abandon Biden" guns. Biden loses, and you get Trump, and probably end up being transported on a boxcar in anticipation of an expedited "trial" followed by deportation. Oh, and also likely the *actual* complete destruction of Palestine and end of any hope for a US-recognized Palestinian state.
C) Stick to your "abandon Biden" guns. Biden wins anyway, and you've demonstrated that a Democratic presidential candidate does not need the Muslim community in its coalition in order to win Michigan. You obliterate your leverage and give the president zero reason to prioritize your demands in the future. If the play you're calling is sabotage, it'd better fucking work.
I think scenario C is the likeliest, but I'm an optimist.
The war in Gaza must end and I don't think anybody is more acutely aware of that than Joe Biden if his rhetoric and actions over the last month or so is any indication. But the demand of a sudden "ceasefire" that will be immediately violated by Hamas (as it did last time) is pure virtue-signaling optics politics that takes none of the real factors at play into account. I respect the right to protest peacefully or at the ballot box to effect a policy change - it's certainly the best way to go about it. But if the consequence they're threatening in exchange is to return Donald Trump to the White House, the guy who wants to literally get rid of Muslims at home and abroad, it becomes a kind of self-harm threat, and I'm not sure those work in politics. Do these people really think the biggest consequence of Trump winning the 2024 election will be that Joe Biden is sad? No. Joe Biden will be fine. THEY'LL be fucked, but Joe Biden will be okay. I've just never seen a political constituency make demands with a gun pressed against their own head.
The people complaining (and not just Fox News fools) about the disrespect Biden showed to Muslim voters by daring to eat ice cream while discussing it are f*cking insufferable. It's Dijon mustard all over again.
Side note—what the heck is with the right wing melting down that Biden, an adult male, likes ice cream?? They kept saying how weird and infantile it was, as if you stop liking it once you hit 18 or something.
Off topic, I was at the university of Delaware this weekend and they have a proprietary creamery where the ice cream was SO GOOD. I wondered if that's where Biden got his love of ice cream from. Or perhaps it was vice versa and he started the place. I'm not googling it, this is my head canon.
The only thing I will add to this is the Israel is or sole ally in the region. Biden is doing everything in his power to preserve the relationship while trying to end this nonsense. And believe me when I say if we lose our sole ally in that region there will be an absolute clusterfuck of dire consequences. What's happening Gaza is goddamn awful and none of the decisions are easy. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make them.
Excellent point regarding the ceasefire. What will these "protest voters" in Michigan say when they get their wish and then HAMAS blows up their position by violating the ceasefire?
This literally already happened. Didn't change anything for these people.
The thing we have to understand is that a portion of these people actually support Hamas explicitly. The majority don't, but they're being led by and fed talking points by a lot of people who do. It's really less about the Palestinian people than it is about the elimination of the state of Israel, which has been a first priority among certain leftist sects for decades.
Alot also want Hamas completely gone and you know Israel to stop it's genocidal campaign, and the illegal settlements that have been going on for years.
I also think people are getting their information from such different sources that it's impossible to know where the truth lies, which is often the case in a war but many Americans aren't experienced in war. Pro-Israel sources say one thing, pro-Palestinian something else, and pro-Hamas something else again. And those with families in Gaza are hearing horror stories, while those with families in Israel are hearing horror stories from the opposite side. Americans are choosing sides in a war across the world, it's understandably confusing and the fog of war makes it worse.
God, that is so infuriating. It wasn’t just a ban. Trump also defunded the asylum/refugee settlement programs in general and the UN Palestinian refugee program in particular and there are substantially more refugees now. He encouraged Israel building settlements in the West Bank, recognized Israel sovereignty over the Golan Heights and Jerusalem; and then just about every other hardline approach that Netanyahu took. His “Peace Plan” was completely rejected by Palestinians because it eliminated the possibility of a two state solution and the cut them off from support with other Arab nations by no longer making Palestinian peace a conditional issue for them to trade with Israel.
Trump has said that if he is president, there will be no two state solution, that Biden is wrong in condemning settlement building, that Israel isn’t going far enough in their bombing of Gaza, referred to Palestinians as animals and terrorists and said he would ban them completely as refugees….
(I know most of the posters here know this stuff, but holy hell, anyone who thinks Trump is preferable or acting like we just don’t know if he’ll be worse is completely and utterly out of touch.)
One of my friends (who is now a US citizen) had a green card during Trump's term. She couldn't visit her mother in Iran during heart surgery because she was terrified she wouldn't be allowed back in the country. And now she goes around yelling about "genocide Joe" and how Trump couldn't possibly be worse. I can't even begin to comprehend.
Fuck around and find out. The rest of us will work as hard as possible to prevent what would obviously be a shattering outcome for your friend, but if the worst should come to pass I hope we'll all recall the choices people like her made.
Until they see what that looks like in practise. How does she think a Muslim ban will operate? That it only keep out "new" Muslims but the ones already in America will be just fine and left alone? sigh......
It reminds me of the people on the news who were shocked and surprised after Trump won when their neighbors and church members were deported, I didn't mean for this guy to be deported I know him he was one of the good ones. Yeah it doesn't work that way buddy.
A guy I worked with got deported, and another guy I worked with, who was a loud obnoxious Trump train guy, was furious. "This guy is one of the good ones! How could they do that?" Because they think there ARE no "good ones", dude, they only care about white purity. (I no longer work there, but I know he's still a Trumper; he's probably fallen in line with respect to white supremacy by now.)
Not to mention that a huge number of Muslims in Dearborn, etc. are not citizens. They're legal immigrants, on visas, have refugee status, or are undocumented. They may not have been reflected in the protests votes, but they're the friends and relatives of those voters. I frankly don't know if even fully vested citizenship will keep anyone safe from Trump's ethnonationalist second term, but anybody without it is fucked.
I think that's a really good breakdown of the likely outcomes. Although I'm not sure that Biden will be fine. If Trump wins he's been pretty open about his plans to go after anyone who has opposed him in any way. I do agree that the Muslim voters are at much more immediate risk than Joe Biden under a new Trump administration, but I'm not sure that any prominent opponent of Trump can rest too easy once he gets ahold of the Justice Department.
I listened to Vox and NPR do episodes about this and once you got past the niceties of the 'uncommitted' position what was explicitly stated was they don't care if Trump wins and is detrimental to everything and everyone because it will punish Biden for Gaza. They do not care about the people who will be negatively affected by a second Trump Presidency.
That's extremism and idiocy.
There was a woman who spoke about how she was going to not vote for Biden because of legislation that he hasn't passed. This is a college educated women in her 30's who is mad that Biden has not passed legislation when he is the executive branch.
When I hear these idiotic positions, I'm not sympathetic. But it does have the effect of hardening my heart to the plight and pain of others just a little. It's hard to feel sympathy for idiots. (To be clear, I'm not talking about not being sympathetic to Palestinians, but to the voters in the US who somehow think Trump would be better for them.)
What's wild is that they are very much amongst the people who will be negatively affected by a second Trump Presidency. How they don't see that is shocking to me.
"It doesn’t mean that anyone expects Joe Biden to solve a problem that is unsolvable given the extreme right-wing government in power in Israel..."
Of course they expect it. It's the same people that were screaming about Biden "ignoring" his campaign promise to get rid of student loan amounts even after he had reduced it by billions. The bad faith activists that will never be happy with a Biden decision unless every single one of their demands are met, no matter how impractical or unrealistic.
No, I'm not talking about *all* of the people protesting the genocide in Gaza but the loudest? Yeah, I've got my doubts about some of their motivation.
Yes. The degree of bad faith here (and more broadly in the left coalition) needs to be called out. These are people who jump from one unfulfillable demand to the next, treating each as further justification for antagonizing the Democratic Party and calling for voters to abandon it in protest.
These people don't care about the party. They don't care about the country. In fact, their entire worldview is frequently based on the premise that America is the primary evil in the world. There is no suite of policies or positions that, if taken by Biden or the party writ large, would cause them to support Democrats politically.
Biden has accomplished things that have been on the lefty wish list for half a century. His economic policy has been doctrinairely progressive and demand-side in a way we actually haven't seen since FDR. His domestic agenda has been a romp of wins for unions, student borrowers, consumer protection advocates, environmental activists, and minorities, with the screws being put to M&A, big Tech and Pharma, financial services, and predatory lending institutions, among other lefty boogymen. He's pulled the judiciary back from the edge and reshaped it with an avalanche of young progressive judges. He's populated his administration with young people (largely from the Warren campaign) who are historically far, far to his left and has made concessions and inroads to the left flank of his party that no prior establishment figure has come close to. Biden is the test case that tells us: do not trust these people. Do not listen to these people. Do not concede anything to these people unless we actually and firmly agree with them. They will not help us, they will not credit us, and they will constantly move the goalposts to paint every accomplishment as a disappointment. Soliciting their support is a trap. If you cannot be pleased as a progressive with the first four years of the Biden administration, you're never going to be pleased.
We'd be much better off jettisoning the bad-faith left and focusing on suburban moderates.
I saw Seth MacFarlane say how dangerous it is for certain people to hinge their vote on this one specific issue while ignoring the at-home issues that are at risk (reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, etc.) should Trump make it back into the White House. And I saw responses on social media be like “Biden’s had three years to fix those issues and he hasn’t fixed them” like those people still don’t understand that the Presidency as a position of power is not a position of *absolute* power, something that Trump has demonstrated he wants.
They want easy answers and they don't want to learn how our government actually functions. This is true of most Americans, our "side" is no better than the other "side" when it comes to this. As far as I'm concerned, nearly all of our problems could be solved if we actually fixed our failing system(s) of public education. My grandmother, born in 1909 and possessed of an eighth-grade education, knew more about civics than most college graduates today. She learned it in school.
Collaborative, deliberative democracy, the slow boring of hard boards that Biden is among the greatest living experts at, is not interesting enough for the youth. I worry that real participatory democracy will be extinct within my lifetime because it's just too hard and frustrating for these kids who were raised to expect immediate gratification and have since convinced themselves that receiving anything less counts as an act of oppression.
Oh god, you make such a good point about instant gratification. The generation that grew up with a phone in their pockets expects results immediately or not at all. Of course their lack of patience would translate to their political opinions as well. Christ, this country is doomed.
"Despite the Seth Meyers’ interview, that campaign was wildly successful. Tens of thousands of voters voted “uncommitted” — enough to potentially tilt the scales in a swing state in November — and I can guarantee that many of those voters were neither Arab nor Muslim voters but voters from every part of the Democratic coalition who wanted to send a message."
Barack Obama received the same percentage of "uncommitted" in 2008. This is not remotely newsworthy.
Joe Biden has been working on a ceasefire for months. He said yesterday that he thinks it'll happen this weekend. A bunch of performative leftists have nothing to do with it, won't give him credit when it happens, and will in fact find something else to hate him for. Because it's not about Gaza and never was.
Why would they agree to get involved? That's no-win. Hamas doesn't have any reason to agree to a ceasefire. Israel isn't hurting them. They're hurting civilians whom Hamas cares not one iota about. It's why they keep rejecting ceasefires.
I am starting to get enraged by the voters threatening to stay home. It's one thing to do this in the primary but it's creating bad vibes that are going to seep into the general election. This must be how it felt in Germany or Spain or Italy before the fascists took over and the average people who cared about democracy were pretty helpless to do much about it. The Republican Party is openly declaring that they want to install a white Christian theocracy and eliminate our right to vote them out again. Openly. That's in addition to decimating all rights for non-white, women, and gay/trans people, destroying the environment, and allow Russia to invade its neighbors. While certainly not helping Gaza in any way.
When the alternatives are this awful, it feels laughable that Biden is somehow "doing it wrong". I don't think you're incorrect about Biden being able to a better job demonstrating responsiveness. That may also help reduce concerns about his age by being more visible. But anyone who is complaining about him at this moment in time needs to get serious.
"it's creating bad vibes that are going to seep into the general election"
That's what always gets me. People seem to think, "Well, it's early, it's just the Democratic primary which Biden already has sewn up anyway, it's okay to air this out now," but that shit lingers. It gives Republicans ammunition for the general (all Trump has to do is say "Biden screwed up Gaza" and his brain-dead followers will never question what, if anything, Trump would have done differently) and might convince a few undecideds to vote for Trump or just stay out of it. And as we've all seen, "a few" is all it takes.
What would be enough to prove he's recognized this is an issue to important parts of the Democratic base? I assume nothing he says or does will satisfy the "Genocide Joe" folks, but what would be concrete, practical steps beyond the proforma statements he and his administration have already made? Netanyahu seems unlikely to listen to anything we say, as he's happily ignoring whole swathes of his own people, and will likely happily nail Biden on any action he could take that might impede the Israeli war effort, hoping he'll have Trump this time next year.
The Genocide Joe folks are a lost cause, and neither Biden (nor any other American President) is responsible for the actions of Israel. But, for fence sitters, more of THIS, not just from the Press Secretary, but from Biden himself:
From the Bulwark:
“We know it’s been a difficult time,” White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre told reporters yesterday. “The president cares about that. He cares about what that community is feeling, very deeply. And we believe it’s important that they feel that they are able to express themselves and voice their feelings and their concerns. And so, look—you heard [National Security Council spokesman John Kirby] talk about the hostage deal, the temporary ceasefire. That is why it is so critical and important to get that done.”
(It's worth noting that 11 percent voted "uncommitted" against Obama in the 2012 primary. He still won the state by 400,000 votes).
I agree that he has far far less power to handwave and stop things than this group thinks. However, I think sending arms to Israel needs to pause (if possible, I know there may be arms deals currently in place that might prevent some of that) and only resume if Netanyahu agrees to follow UN human rights standards for not targeting citizens during war. At the very least.
It's one of those damned if he does and still damned if he does. I've not heard anyone offer any reasonable solution that would appease enough on both sides.
Now, I know this is hypothetical because it would NEVER happen but suppose Trump decides to say that he is 100% behind Gaza and the Palestinians. Does he lose a single percentage point of his current voters? I'm not sure he does. But even if he does, he probably gains more than enough of the Arab American vote to swing Michigan.
Now, Arab Americans are not voting for TFG. But if enough of them go third party or don't vote, it's buh-bye Michigan and democracy.
This allows me to once again say FUCK THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE. One relatively small coalition in one state should not be able to hold so much sway to decide a national Presidential election.
"Look, it's not anti-Israel for me to beg Prime Minister Netanyahu to stop the actions he's put in motion that are killing children. Babies are dying from bombs and bullets. It's got to stop. immediately"
I think what I like most about Biden is that he's neither dumb nor naive.
On foreign policy, Trump was dumb (that's the most charitable explanatiotion). Obama was well meaning but extremely naive. GWB was both dumb and naive.
Biden is a fucking genius at geopolitics. It's his strongest core competency. He doesn't fall for bullshit or overreact to setbacks, which is why I think he'll brush off this protest vote nonsense fairly expeditiously.
Oh forgot. I think he is listening and the GOP keeps helping him out with crap like the border and hey black like me cause I have a mugshot guy. I wish the Dems as a whole would stop worrying about independents. 99 percent of them are not and know who they will vote for.
At this point I don’t know what will they do. Because if Congress passes additional funding for Israel, does that mean they don’t want Biden to sign it? As someone else pointed out if Biden does that, he’s getting blasted by the Left by claiming he’s not a friend to Israel.
We really want a good guy to back in the middle east. There aren't any. There aren't going to be any. I am tired of Republicans looking for cover by claiming they support Israel. This is a bigoted ignorant stance that presupposes all Jews blindly back another government.
By the same token, American Jews, particularly older ones need to understand it isn't 1967, or 1974. The current Israeli government is going to abuse whatever goodwill they have until they don't have it any more.
And the rest of the Arab world? Fuck them. If it weren't for Jews their biggest enemies would be each other. Stewart's METO wouldn't work because all of these authoritarian petro-states are happy to use Palestinians as a blunt object to hit Israel with. It's the question I want to ask every single anti-Israel protester. Where's your anger at Saudi, at the UAE, at Jordan, at Egypt at all of these states that can build monuments to excess, world class soccer stadiums and man made islands and allegedly have a vested interest in their own backyard, yet do the bare minimum?
My fear is Biden is too much a fan of the compromise, the diplomatic interplay, the solution that doesn't offend anyone. While you meet in lavishly appointed conference rooms with catered lunch and happy hour mixers, families are being obliterated.
It's easy to scream for a "solution" but a problem decades or centuries in the making doesn't clear itself up overnight.
Sad upvote. I just want Americans to start caring about our country more than they care about another one. There are horrors happening everywhere in the world, and it's good to be aware of them and to care about them, but we need to vote based on what's best for the United States and the people who live here. And the right to vote, a social safety net, human rights for women and LGBTQ+ people, anti-racism initiatives, etc. is what's at stake. Democracy is what's best for the people here, and we may truly lose it.
And if we do, the middle east is well and truly fucked anyway, but so are all the NATO countries.
I think listening to those voters is also smart politics because it shows (again for those who can't seem to pay attention to anything more than the latest political story) that Biden is a MOVABLE candidate. That's not to say he doesn't have his own views or policy positions, but that he listens to his constituents and adjusts based on their needs. That's compared to a right-wing, which continues to do incredibly unpopular things and will only adjust if the fallout is deemed to be catastrophic (like what we saw with the IVF ban in Alabama). Essentially, if you're a voter, Biden will listen to you, but Trump will only listen to the last thing he heard on right-wing media.
I'm a Michigan primary voter who voted uncommitted. I actually spoiled my previously filled out ballot so that I could vote uncommitted. In our miserable two party system this is my one and only way to officially register my discontent over him running for a second term. I think he's been a good first term president, I appreciate that he doesn't have a good choice in Gaza, though i don't like the ones he's made. But i don't think he should have run for a second term, neither does the majority of American's and Democrats, and I am allowed this tiny act of rebellion to express myself. Come November I will vote for whomever the Dems nominate. And no, I am not a het white man. I full appreciate the dangers of a Trump presidency.
I respect your right to do as you choose, and as long as you vote against Trump in November, have at it! But I do think the "majority of Americans" you quote are answering pollsters off the cuff without any clue of just how important the power of incumbency is in an election. To run without it when you have the presidency is, in a word, madness.
Also, I think what all of these 'this is NOT THE TIME to show any thing but full support for Democrats and anyone who does not is selfish and privileged and hates women and every other disenfranchised group,' people are conveniently ignoring is that we were brought to this point in women's rights by a dedicated coalition of single issue voters thinking long term. Same with gun rights. The current political climate is proof that single issue voters are a pretty powerful group, especially if they have more in mind than simply the results of the next election. For the members of the Arab community and others who really do care about this issue more than anything else, it seems like a smart move to push their weight around as single issue voters because as everyone is pointing out by way of criticism, this issue isn't going away any time soon.
This would make sense if Trump didn't represent a unique and existential threat to liberal democracy in America. Not really the moment for "long term thinking" when it's entirely possible that American democracy has no guaranteed long term. If you think that's hyperbole, go ahead and roll that dice.
Just listened to a podcast where a guest laid out exactly what will happen to the Supreme Court if trump wins. The two oldest justices will certainly resign (Thomas and Alioto) and trump will pick extremely young extremely far right wing replacements and they will run the courts for decades to come and pull this country back to the dark ages. I have absolutely no patience for anyone to whine about Biden’s age, Biden not stopping the unstoppable mess in the Middle East and everything else that he hasn’t waved his magic wand and fixed.
Oh great, we just found out that the deplorables that trump was able to get on the Supreme Court are going to protect his ass and hear his immunity bs argument and further delay the Jack Smith trial. Good work everyone that voted third party or didn’t vote in 2016!
Sorry but the "gentle chiding" is what we see in public and unlike the 13% in Michigan I don't need my hand held; I haven't let this war make me throw nuance out the window or forget how any of this works, namely that *actual* diplomacy doesn't happen in front of a damn camera. And let's be real the only thing that is going to appease the people complaining the loudest is for Biden to reverse eighty years of policy and have the United States stop supporting Israel's right to exist altogether, which he shouldn't and thankfully isn't going to do. And frankly if that's the hill they want to die on well, they most likely will under Trump or one of his successors so fuck it, they win.
Thank you for this. I'm in Michigan, and what you've said here is exactly why I dragged my ass to the polls to vote for Biden yesterday. Am I happy with what I see him doing, no, but do I think what I see is all that's happening, or that it's as simple as the far left is making it out to be? Also no.
There is a part of me that is honestly wondering if party of the issue is that these folks are largely comprised of people who weren't of voting age or otherwise eligible to vote in 2016 (and in some cases, 2020 as well)- because I'm stunned to the degree to which I'm seeing history repeat itself with no seeming degree of awareness of what happened then.
Thank you! It makes me so frustrated how little Americans--even the "college-educated" ones--seem to understand about international relations. Do they really think Biden is calling Bibi and gently suggesting a single damn thing? That's not what's happening. We aren't told 95% of what's actually happening, and that is how it's supposed to be because that is how our national security, and that of our diplomatic partners, is protected. Something Trump never grasped. Biden's doing everything he can, and he has been all along, to prevent this situation from becoming full-scale WW3. Nobody wishes Netanyahu was at the bottom of the ocean more than he does.
Here's what I wish his campaign would learn from these results: the meaning of the word "Zionist" has changed to younger Americans and Biden should stop using that word when he talks about his belief that Israel has the right to exist. Period.
When it leaked that Biden also thinks Netanyahu was an asshole and a "bad fucking guy" I'll admit I was a little relieved. I always suspected the state department is doing way more to hold Israel back behind the scenes than people realized but that just confirmed it for me straight up. Now they of course claimed he didn't say that, but I think deep down we all know that Biden totally did.
Frankly as a women watching the Republican Party systematically tear down rights we fought for and thought we won decades ago and knowing that they would happily continue on this path is what I care about right now. The terrible neverending mess in the Middle East has been around for a long time and sadly seems to get worse for lots of reasons. Arab-Americans who think not voting for Biden will solve any of these issues are living in a non reality based world. Trump will happily destroy Gaza and not give it a second thought. And I agree about our f’cked up electoral college system. That 10 or 20,000 voters in one state could give the presidency to trump, who will certainly once again lose the popular vote, is an embarrassing failure of our democracy.
It frankly angers me that people can't see this. Its like they're pretending 2016 (when the exact same phenomenon handed Trump the Presidency despite losing the popular vote, never happened. If the intent was to "send a message" to Biden without any real consequences, fine, but I have yet to anyone put forth a cogent argument for how electing Trump (which again, is the only other outcome to Biden not winning) will result in a better outcome for them on that issue.
I understand the anger and frustration people have (though I strongly disagree that this should be the issue on which the outcome of this American Presidential election should turn - that to me is f**king looney tunes) but people also have to come to terms with the idea that there is no perfect candidate and its possible that the candidate you generally support isn't going to perfectly align with you on every issue. Let's be clear here - the argument isn't that Biden isn't criticizing Israel at all, its that he's not criticizing Israel ENOUGH. You're really ready to risk a Trump Presidency for that? F**king hell.
If you aren't an Arab American you don't get to say jack shit about how they feel or what reality they are living in.
Agree! Which is why we should cut out any expectation of their support, remove them from the assumed Biden coalition, and concentrate on suburban voters (in Michigan and elsewhere) who vote in greater numbers and with more reliability.
Even then, I suspect that most of these primary protest votes will revert to Biden votes simply because it's tough to follow through with a threat when you yourself are the most likely victim of the consequences of that threat. That said, the protest vote didn't come close to Biden's 2020 margin of victory, so either way it's probably fine. To be clear I'm not suggesting Democrats abandon the interests or wellbeing of American Muslims. On the contrary, it's in their best interest that Trump not become president, so it is incumbent on Democrats to deploy their resources in such a way that makes that outcome least likely.
But this constituency and others should be forewarned: there are certain groups that have the electoral juice to demand summary policy changes. Black women, for example. Muslims, for better or for worse, almost certainly do not. And if you're threatening to abandon a political figure or party, you either need to be at peace with the consequence of that abandonment (Trump) or be prepared to no longer exert leverage over the party/politician you've abandoned if your threat doesn't work. That's a big gamble for the political power of American Muslims, whose membership in the left-of-center coalition is already tenuous due to a lot of very socially conservative views.
Ok then, I’m not allowed to give my opinion on a political post about an election that just happened. You know what, that’s not how it works. I can be frustrated and mad at rednecks that love trump or white women or poc that vote against their own self interest and write about it! (Free country and all that). And my opinion is that the reality that Arab Americans live in will get a whole lot worse if trump is re-elected. And I don’t want that to happen.
The premise of the article is flawed. Review the history of the "undecided" vote in Michigan.
It was 11% in the last cycle when there was nothing controversial about the nominees at the time. So this time - with Tlaib and many others attempting to rally a protest vote, it comes in at 13%? So we're supposed to see a 2% difference - a few thousand votes if the math in my head is correct - as some slap in the face to Biden that he needs to pay attention to? And overhaul America's Foreign Policy positions? I think not.
I get that there are a lot of people who are upset by his initial response to Gaza. I hate it too. The fault here is the Israeli government's ... and that's who needs to course correct.
But you think a few thousand meaningless votes (meaningless because they were cast in a primary Biden was going to win in a landslide anyway) is going to change the administration's plan? You think a Trump administration would have done anything better? (In fact, it's obvious that it would have been many times worse).
This all smacks of "purity" tests ... and that's how the left grants the GOP control of the government.
Sadly, it's also how the media reports it.
have you seen the NYT headlines about the primary? Brutal
Yeah they're really juicing it for all its worth. There's always a lot of subtle editorializing at the NYT but it's usually all over the place. This has felt like a very coordinated effort to pressure Biden by the paper at large by turning something barely consequential (an "uncommitted" vote 2% higher than what Obama received in 2012) into some kind of political air raid siren.
The NYT has been absolutely shameful in their coverage of this election season. It genuinely feels like they want Trump to win and destroy American democracy. I don't fucking get it.
They do. They've gone on record. The stability of Biden, and the opacity of his White House, is killing their already failing business models. Trump was the best thing that ever happened to them. Individual journalists may be alarmed by Trump, but "The Press" likes Trump and wants him to win. Never forget that.
First of all, this thing didn't come close to Biden's 2020 margin of victory, which was around 150,000. And Haley's voters (40%) do not appear willing to vote for Trump en masse. Biden is likely going to win Michigan, and it will be certified by the state's democratic AG. So no, Biden does not "have to listen" in the way being suggested, putting aside the fact that Biden has pressured Netanyahu in ways few other presidents of either party would.
So the potential outcomes for this group are:
A) You've said your piece, now fall in line behind Biden. Find some face-saving excuse in an action Biden takes which he would have taken anyway but which you credit your "pressure campaign" for ("yay we forced his hand!" or whatever).
B) Stick to your "abandon Biden" guns. Biden loses, and you get Trump, and probably end up being transported on a boxcar in anticipation of an expedited "trial" followed by deportation. Oh, and also likely the *actual* complete destruction of Palestine and end of any hope for a US-recognized Palestinian state.
C) Stick to your "abandon Biden" guns. Biden wins anyway, and you've demonstrated that a Democratic presidential candidate does not need the Muslim community in its coalition in order to win Michigan. You obliterate your leverage and give the president zero reason to prioritize your demands in the future. If the play you're calling is sabotage, it'd better fucking work.
I think scenario C is the likeliest, but I'm an optimist.
The war in Gaza must end and I don't think anybody is more acutely aware of that than Joe Biden if his rhetoric and actions over the last month or so is any indication. But the demand of a sudden "ceasefire" that will be immediately violated by Hamas (as it did last time) is pure virtue-signaling optics politics that takes none of the real factors at play into account. I respect the right to protest peacefully or at the ballot box to effect a policy change - it's certainly the best way to go about it. But if the consequence they're threatening in exchange is to return Donald Trump to the White House, the guy who wants to literally get rid of Muslims at home and abroad, it becomes a kind of self-harm threat, and I'm not sure those work in politics. Do these people really think the biggest consequence of Trump winning the 2024 election will be that Joe Biden is sad? No. Joe Biden will be fine. THEY'LL be fucked, but Joe Biden will be okay. I've just never seen a political constituency make demands with a gun pressed against their own head.
The people complaining (and not just Fox News fools) about the disrespect Biden showed to Muslim voters by daring to eat ice cream while discussing it are f*cking insufferable. It's Dijon mustard all over again.
And he wasn't even holding a press conference. The press just sought him out while he was out for ice cream.
Side note—what the heck is with the right wing melting down that Biden, an adult male, likes ice cream?? They kept saying how weird and infantile it was, as if you stop liking it once you hit 18 or something.
Off topic, I was at the university of Delaware this weekend and they have a proprietary creamery where the ice cream was SO GOOD. I wondered if that's where Biden got his love of ice cream from. Or perhaps it was vice versa and he started the place. I'm not googling it, this is my head canon.
The only thing I will add to this is the Israel is or sole ally in the region. Biden is doing everything in his power to preserve the relationship while trying to end this nonsense. And believe me when I say if we lose our sole ally in that region there will be an absolute clusterfuck of dire consequences. What's happening Gaza is goddamn awful and none of the decisions are easy. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make them.
Excellent point regarding the ceasefire. What will these "protest voters" in Michigan say when they get their wish and then HAMAS blows up their position by violating the ceasefire?
This literally already happened. Didn't change anything for these people.
The thing we have to understand is that a portion of these people actually support Hamas explicitly. The majority don't, but they're being led by and fed talking points by a lot of people who do. It's really less about the Palestinian people than it is about the elimination of the state of Israel, which has been a first priority among certain leftist sects for decades.
Alot also want Hamas completely gone and you know Israel to stop it's genocidal campaign, and the illegal settlements that have been going on for years.
I also think people are getting their information from such different sources that it's impossible to know where the truth lies, which is often the case in a war but many Americans aren't experienced in war. Pro-Israel sources say one thing, pro-Palestinian something else, and pro-Hamas something else again. And those with families in Gaza are hearing horror stories, while those with families in Israel are hearing horror stories from the opposite side. Americans are choosing sides in a war across the world, it's understandably confusing and the fog of war makes it worse.
https://twitter.com/JaredEMoskowitz/status/1762908223772696699?s=20
So much for the protester's line of thinking...
I've seen Lexi Alexander, who's German/Palestinian, outright say she and other US Muslims would prefer a US Muslim ban over continued attacks on Gaza.
God, that is so infuriating. It wasn’t just a ban. Trump also defunded the asylum/refugee settlement programs in general and the UN Palestinian refugee program in particular and there are substantially more refugees now. He encouraged Israel building settlements in the West Bank, recognized Israel sovereignty over the Golan Heights and Jerusalem; and then just about every other hardline approach that Netanyahu took. His “Peace Plan” was completely rejected by Palestinians because it eliminated the possibility of a two state solution and the cut them off from support with other Arab nations by no longer making Palestinian peace a conditional issue for them to trade with Israel.
Trump has said that if he is president, there will be no two state solution, that Biden is wrong in condemning settlement building, that Israel isn’t going far enough in their bombing of Gaza, referred to Palestinians as animals and terrorists and said he would ban them completely as refugees….
(I know most of the posters here know this stuff, but holy hell, anyone who thinks Trump is preferable or acting like we just don’t know if he’ll be worse is completely and utterly out of touch.)
One of my friends (who is now a US citizen) had a green card during Trump's term. She couldn't visit her mother in Iran during heart surgery because she was terrified she wouldn't be allowed back in the country. And now she goes around yelling about "genocide Joe" and how Trump couldn't possibly be worse. I can't even begin to comprehend.
Fuck around and find out. The rest of us will work as hard as possible to prevent what would obviously be a shattering outcome for your friend, but if the worst should come to pass I hope we'll all recall the choices people like her made.
Until they see what that looks like in practise. How does she think a Muslim ban will operate? That it only keep out "new" Muslims but the ones already in America will be just fine and left alone? sigh......
It reminds me of the people on the news who were shocked and surprised after Trump won when their neighbors and church members were deported, I didn't mean for this guy to be deported I know him he was one of the good ones. Yeah it doesn't work that way buddy.
A guy I worked with got deported, and another guy I worked with, who was a loud obnoxious Trump train guy, was furious. "This guy is one of the good ones! How could they do that?" Because they think there ARE no "good ones", dude, they only care about white purity. (I no longer work there, but I know he's still a Trumper; he's probably fallen in line with respect to white supremacy by now.)
Not to mention that a huge number of Muslims in Dearborn, etc. are not citizens. They're legal immigrants, on visas, have refugee status, or are undocumented. They may not have been reflected in the protests votes, but they're the friends and relatives of those voters. I frankly don't know if even fully vested citizenship will keep anyone safe from Trump's ethnonationalist second term, but anybody without it is fucked.
Does she speak for every Muslim-American?
I'm not saying she does. I'm just pointing out *one* mentality I've seen.
Oh, I know. My comment was aimed more at her mentality.
Porque no los dos?
I think that's a really good breakdown of the likely outcomes. Although I'm not sure that Biden will be fine. If Trump wins he's been pretty open about his plans to go after anyone who has opposed him in any way. I do agree that the Muslim voters are at much more immediate risk than Joe Biden under a new Trump administration, but I'm not sure that any prominent opponent of Trump can rest too easy once he gets ahold of the Justice Department.
I listened to Vox and NPR do episodes about this and once you got past the niceties of the 'uncommitted' position what was explicitly stated was they don't care if Trump wins and is detrimental to everything and everyone because it will punish Biden for Gaza. They do not care about the people who will be negatively affected by a second Trump Presidency.
That's extremism and idiocy.
There was a woman who spoke about how she was going to not vote for Biden because of legislation that he hasn't passed. This is a college educated women in her 30's who is mad that Biden has not passed legislation when he is the executive branch.
When I hear these idiotic positions, I'm not sympathetic. But it does have the effect of hardening my heart to the plight and pain of others just a little. It's hard to feel sympathy for idiots. (To be clear, I'm not talking about not being sympathetic to Palestinians, but to the voters in the US who somehow think Trump would be better for them.)
What's wild is that they are very much amongst the people who will be negatively affected by a second Trump Presidency. How they don't see that is shocking to me.
"It doesn’t mean that anyone expects Joe Biden to solve a problem that is unsolvable given the extreme right-wing government in power in Israel..."
Of course they expect it. It's the same people that were screaming about Biden "ignoring" his campaign promise to get rid of student loan amounts even after he had reduced it by billions. The bad faith activists that will never be happy with a Biden decision unless every single one of their demands are met, no matter how impractical or unrealistic.
No, I'm not talking about *all* of the people protesting the genocide in Gaza but the loudest? Yeah, I've got my doubts about some of their motivation.
Yes. The degree of bad faith here (and more broadly in the left coalition) needs to be called out. These are people who jump from one unfulfillable demand to the next, treating each as further justification for antagonizing the Democratic Party and calling for voters to abandon it in protest.
These people don't care about the party. They don't care about the country. In fact, their entire worldview is frequently based on the premise that America is the primary evil in the world. There is no suite of policies or positions that, if taken by Biden or the party writ large, would cause them to support Democrats politically.
Biden has accomplished things that have been on the lefty wish list for half a century. His economic policy has been doctrinairely progressive and demand-side in a way we actually haven't seen since FDR. His domestic agenda has been a romp of wins for unions, student borrowers, consumer protection advocates, environmental activists, and minorities, with the screws being put to M&A, big Tech and Pharma, financial services, and predatory lending institutions, among other lefty boogymen. He's pulled the judiciary back from the edge and reshaped it with an avalanche of young progressive judges. He's populated his administration with young people (largely from the Warren campaign) who are historically far, far to his left and has made concessions and inroads to the left flank of his party that no prior establishment figure has come close to. Biden is the test case that tells us: do not trust these people. Do not listen to these people. Do not concede anything to these people unless we actually and firmly agree with them. They will not help us, they will not credit us, and they will constantly move the goalposts to paint every accomplishment as a disappointment. Soliciting their support is a trap. If you cannot be pleased as a progressive with the first four years of the Biden administration, you're never going to be pleased.
We'd be much better off jettisoning the bad-faith left and focusing on suburban moderates.
Thank you. And I should start using "the bad-faith left" in place of progressives, it's less antagonistic.
True. I am a progressive. A lot of the people who keep moving the goalposts are not. "Bad faith" is a good term for it.
I was following Redmond's lead and using "dirt bag left" but that was apparently confusing to some people.
Maybe I should just keep my opinions to myself and avoid the headache completely.
I saw Seth MacFarlane say how dangerous it is for certain people to hinge their vote on this one specific issue while ignoring the at-home issues that are at risk (reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, etc.) should Trump make it back into the White House. And I saw responses on social media be like “Biden’s had three years to fix those issues and he hasn’t fixed them” like those people still don’t understand that the Presidency as a position of power is not a position of *absolute* power, something that Trump has demonstrated he wants.
They want easy answers and they don't want to learn how our government actually functions. This is true of most Americans, our "side" is no better than the other "side" when it comes to this. As far as I'm concerned, nearly all of our problems could be solved if we actually fixed our failing system(s) of public education. My grandmother, born in 1909 and possessed of an eighth-grade education, knew more about civics than most college graduates today. She learned it in school.
A LOT of the left just wants a leftist Trump.
Collaborative, deliberative democracy, the slow boring of hard boards that Biden is among the greatest living experts at, is not interesting enough for the youth. I worry that real participatory democracy will be extinct within my lifetime because it's just too hard and frustrating for these kids who were raised to expect immediate gratification and have since convinced themselves that receiving anything less counts as an act of oppression.
Oh god, you make such a good point about instant gratification. The generation that grew up with a phone in their pockets expects results immediately or not at all. Of course their lack of patience would translate to their political opinions as well. Christ, this country is doomed.
"Despite the Seth Meyers’ interview, that campaign was wildly successful. Tens of thousands of voters voted “uncommitted” — enough to potentially tilt the scales in a swing state in November — and I can guarantee that many of those voters were neither Arab nor Muslim voters but voters from every part of the Democratic coalition who wanted to send a message."
Barack Obama received the same percentage of "uncommitted" in 2008. This is not remotely newsworthy.
Joe Biden has been working on a ceasefire for months. He said yesterday that he thinks it'll happen this weekend. A bunch of performative leftists have nothing to do with it, won't give him credit when it happens, and will in fact find something else to hate him for. Because it's not about Gaza and never was.
I think it was just reported that Hamas rejected this new ceasefire agreement.
Biden's fault, obviously.
Yeah /s. Although, perhaps Biden should get US Muslim leaders involved in ceasefire negotiations.
Why would they agree to get involved? That's no-win. Hamas doesn't have any reason to agree to a ceasefire. Israel isn't hurting them. They're hurting civilians whom Hamas cares not one iota about. It's why they keep rejecting ceasefires.
I was just spitballing. I'm at a loss as to how to approach this situation. But yeah, a ceasefire won't happen with Hamas continuing to reject one.
Both sides distanced themselves from it.
I am starting to get enraged by the voters threatening to stay home. It's one thing to do this in the primary but it's creating bad vibes that are going to seep into the general election. This must be how it felt in Germany or Spain or Italy before the fascists took over and the average people who cared about democracy were pretty helpless to do much about it. The Republican Party is openly declaring that they want to install a white Christian theocracy and eliminate our right to vote them out again. Openly. That's in addition to decimating all rights for non-white, women, and gay/trans people, destroying the environment, and allow Russia to invade its neighbors. While certainly not helping Gaza in any way.
When the alternatives are this awful, it feels laughable that Biden is somehow "doing it wrong". I don't think you're incorrect about Biden being able to a better job demonstrating responsiveness. That may also help reduce concerns about his age by being more visible. But anyone who is complaining about him at this moment in time needs to get serious.
"it's creating bad vibes that are going to seep into the general election"
That's what always gets me. People seem to think, "Well, it's early, it's just the Democratic primary which Biden already has sewn up anyway, it's okay to air this out now," but that shit lingers. It gives Republicans ammunition for the general (all Trump has to do is say "Biden screwed up Gaza" and his brain-dead followers will never question what, if anything, Trump would have done differently) and might convince a few undecideds to vote for Trump or just stay out of it. And as we've all seen, "a few" is all it takes.
What would be enough to prove he's recognized this is an issue to important parts of the Democratic base? I assume nothing he says or does will satisfy the "Genocide Joe" folks, but what would be concrete, practical steps beyond the proforma statements he and his administration have already made? Netanyahu seems unlikely to listen to anything we say, as he's happily ignoring whole swathes of his own people, and will likely happily nail Biden on any action he could take that might impede the Israeli war effort, hoping he'll have Trump this time next year.
The Genocide Joe folks are a lost cause, and neither Biden (nor any other American President) is responsible for the actions of Israel. But, for fence sitters, more of THIS, not just from the Press Secretary, but from Biden himself:
From the Bulwark:
“We know it’s been a difficult time,” White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre told reporters yesterday. “The president cares about that. He cares about what that community is feeling, very deeply. And we believe it’s important that they feel that they are able to express themselves and voice their feelings and their concerns. And so, look—you heard [National Security Council spokesman John Kirby] talk about the hostage deal, the temporary ceasefire. That is why it is so critical and important to get that done.”
(It's worth noting that 11 percent voted "uncommitted" against Obama in the 2012 primary. He still won the state by 400,000 votes).
I agree that he has far far less power to handwave and stop things than this group thinks. However, I think sending arms to Israel needs to pause (if possible, I know there may be arms deals currently in place that might prevent some of that) and only resume if Netanyahu agrees to follow UN human rights standards for not targeting citizens during war. At the very least.
It's one of those damned if he does and still damned if he does. I've not heard anyone offer any reasonable solution that would appease enough on both sides.
Now, I know this is hypothetical because it would NEVER happen but suppose Trump decides to say that he is 100% behind Gaza and the Palestinians. Does he lose a single percentage point of his current voters? I'm not sure he does. But even if he does, he probably gains more than enough of the Arab American vote to swing Michigan.
Now, Arab Americans are not voting for TFG. But if enough of them go third party or don't vote, it's buh-bye Michigan and democracy.
This allows me to once again say FUCK THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE. One relatively small coalition in one state should not be able to hold so much sway to decide a national Presidential election.
"Look, it's not anti-Israel for me to beg Prime Minister Netanyahu to stop the actions he's put in motion that are killing children. Babies are dying from bombs and bullets. It's got to stop. immediately"
Not one Democratic vote would be lost.
I agree 100% that's what he could/should do. I hope you're right about it not costing him any votes. But I'm just Polly Pessimistic these days.
Acting like any ceasefire won't immediately be broken is both dumb and naive.
I think what I like most about Biden is that he's neither dumb nor naive.
On foreign policy, Trump was dumb (that's the most charitable explanatiotion). Obama was well meaning but extremely naive. GWB was both dumb and naive.
Biden is a fucking genius at geopolitics. It's his strongest core competency. He doesn't fall for bullshit or overreact to setbacks, which is why I think he'll brush off this protest vote nonsense fairly expeditiously.
How can he be a genius at geopolitics when I, a person with zero experience and the most basic level of knowledge, don't like what's happening? /s
Oh forgot. I think he is listening and the GOP keeps helping him out with crap like the border and hey black like me cause I have a mugshot guy. I wish the Dems as a whole would stop worrying about independents. 99 percent of them are not and know who they will vote for.
At this point I don’t know what will they do. Because if Congress passes additional funding for Israel, does that mean they don’t want Biden to sign it? As someone else pointed out if Biden does that, he’s getting blasted by the Left by claiming he’s not a friend to Israel.
In other political news, McConnell is stepping down from leadership positions in November, but says he will stay on as Senator.
Contenders already for his position are: John Thune, John Cornyn and John Barrasso. The GOP is so diverse, they’ve got 3 white guys named John.
Oh, I bet there's more than that! Those are just the johns who want the job.
We really want a good guy to back in the middle east. There aren't any. There aren't going to be any. I am tired of Republicans looking for cover by claiming they support Israel. This is a bigoted ignorant stance that presupposes all Jews blindly back another government.
By the same token, American Jews, particularly older ones need to understand it isn't 1967, or 1974. The current Israeli government is going to abuse whatever goodwill they have until they don't have it any more.
And the rest of the Arab world? Fuck them. If it weren't for Jews their biggest enemies would be each other. Stewart's METO wouldn't work because all of these authoritarian petro-states are happy to use Palestinians as a blunt object to hit Israel with. It's the question I want to ask every single anti-Israel protester. Where's your anger at Saudi, at the UAE, at Jordan, at Egypt at all of these states that can build monuments to excess, world class soccer stadiums and man made islands and allegedly have a vested interest in their own backyard, yet do the bare minimum?
My fear is Biden is too much a fan of the compromise, the diplomatic interplay, the solution that doesn't offend anyone. While you meet in lavishly appointed conference rooms with catered lunch and happy hour mixers, families are being obliterated.
It's easy to scream for a "solution" but a problem decades or centuries in the making doesn't clear itself up overnight.
Sad upvote. I just want Americans to start caring about our country more than they care about another one. There are horrors happening everywhere in the world, and it's good to be aware of them and to care about them, but we need to vote based on what's best for the United States and the people who live here. And the right to vote, a social safety net, human rights for women and LGBTQ+ people, anti-racism initiatives, etc. is what's at stake. Democracy is what's best for the people here, and we may truly lose it.
And if we do, the middle east is well and truly fucked anyway, but so are all the NATO countries.
I think listening to those voters is also smart politics because it shows (again for those who can't seem to pay attention to anything more than the latest political story) that Biden is a MOVABLE candidate. That's not to say he doesn't have his own views or policy positions, but that he listens to his constituents and adjusts based on their needs. That's compared to a right-wing, which continues to do incredibly unpopular things and will only adjust if the fallout is deemed to be catastrophic (like what we saw with the IVF ban in Alabama). Essentially, if you're a voter, Biden will listen to you, but Trump will only listen to the last thing he heard on right-wing media.
I'm a Michigan primary voter who voted uncommitted. I actually spoiled my previously filled out ballot so that I could vote uncommitted. In our miserable two party system this is my one and only way to officially register my discontent over him running for a second term. I think he's been a good first term president, I appreciate that he doesn't have a good choice in Gaza, though i don't like the ones he's made. But i don't think he should have run for a second term, neither does the majority of American's and Democrats, and I am allowed this tiny act of rebellion to express myself. Come November I will vote for whomever the Dems nominate. And no, I am not a het white man. I full appreciate the dangers of a Trump presidency.
As long as you're voting for Biden in November, do your thing now.
I respect your right to do as you choose, and as long as you vote against Trump in November, have at it! But I do think the "majority of Americans" you quote are answering pollsters off the cuff without any clue of just how important the power of incumbency is in an election. To run without it when you have the presidency is, in a word, madness.
Also, I think what all of these 'this is NOT THE TIME to show any thing but full support for Democrats and anyone who does not is selfish and privileged and hates women and every other disenfranchised group,' people are conveniently ignoring is that we were brought to this point in women's rights by a dedicated coalition of single issue voters thinking long term. Same with gun rights. The current political climate is proof that single issue voters are a pretty powerful group, especially if they have more in mind than simply the results of the next election. For the members of the Arab community and others who really do care about this issue more than anything else, it seems like a smart move to push their weight around as single issue voters because as everyone is pointing out by way of criticism, this issue isn't going away any time soon.
This would make sense if Trump didn't represent a unique and existential threat to liberal democracy in America. Not really the moment for "long term thinking" when it's entirely possible that American democracy has no guaranteed long term. If you think that's hyperbole, go ahead and roll that dice.
Just listened to a podcast where a guest laid out exactly what will happen to the Supreme Court if trump wins. The two oldest justices will certainly resign (Thomas and Alioto) and trump will pick extremely young extremely far right wing replacements and they will run the courts for decades to come and pull this country back to the dark ages. I have absolutely no patience for anyone to whine about Biden’s age, Biden not stopping the unstoppable mess in the Middle East and everything else that he hasn’t waved his magic wand and fixed.
Oh great, we just found out that the deplorables that trump was able to get on the Supreme Court are going to protect his ass and hear his immunity bs argument and further delay the Jack Smith trial. Good work everyone that voted third party or didn’t vote in 2016!